Interesting game last night. We were sitting on 8th in the ladder playing the team ranked 2nd, in the wind and with only 2 girls on the field giving us only 6 and I wasn't playing again. 7 points later and the score was 7 - 0, us. It was really good to watch. It seemed like almost every turn was converted into a point. Ended up taking half 8-1.
In the second half the wind picked up a bit and we were struggling to move the disc up wind. The wind was a bit crossfield as well and we kept getting trapped on the line with dangerous outside in throws which our handlers were struggling with. I suggested we only attack from the other side of the field and that our handler priority be to swing to that side before looking up the line and that worked quite well.
The other thing we did was the huck and set. There are a lot of turnovers in this league, so it's a valid strategy especially in the wind. We would send a couple deep just in case and put it. There were a couple of times where this didn't work very well. The first time there was a contest on the receiving end of the huck, right on the endzone line which resulted in a contested foul call and the disc went back to the thrower. The second attempt at the huck made far less ground because the defense was more aware. Made me think that had the foul not been called, we could have got down and set up the defense, got the turn and scored. Moral of the story, calling a foul isn't always a good plan, even if you were fouled.
Second problem with the huck and set is an aware defence. A couple of times there was an interception of the huck and the opposition then advanced the disc up the field before the defence could set. Would have been a better option to throw the disc out of the field so that the defence can could up.
Not sure what the final score was, but it was a good game to watch. Hopefully I'll be back out there next week.
Thursday, October 30, 2008
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
Mixed Nats... A Different View
It's taken a while to write about mixed nats because right after I got back, I came down with a virus and slept for 60 hours in 3 days. It was kind of a good thing, because it kept me off my ankle for a while which is still recovering from a deltoid sprain less than a week before the tournament.
The injury was a pretty serious one, and the recommendation from pretty much everyone was don't play. My podiatrist was nice though, he said he could strap it and play on painkillers, but it probably wasn't a good idea. I decided before I left I definitely wasn't playing Saturday, and I'd see how I went for Sunday/Monday.
This changed my view of Mixed Nats. Normally I'm a receiver and rely on speed to get the disc and make some cuts. With a dodgy ankle, my greatest strength was going to be taken away from me and I was going to have to play as a handler. On the plus side, I had a day of watching the team to figure out how I could fit in, and attempt to contribute from the sidelines instead of the field.
I learnt two things pretty quickly. First, ultimate is frustrating from the sideline and second, games are really really long!
I think I was able to help out the team with little observations about the game in between points. One thing I noticed which I hadn't before was stack creep. While the stack initially set up in a nice spot, people returning to the stack always seem to return a little bit more on the open side than they started. During a long point, the stack would creep ever closer to the open sideline which crowded the lane. I even saw people who were looking to cut shuffling forwards and moving the stack with them. I think a simple solution to this is to get players to return to the stack on the break side of whomever is already in the stack. Hopefully that will arrest the stack creep.
I was playing with Flycatchers and the strength of the team was in the athleticism of the girls. Not many had handler disc skills, but their running and cutting kept the team alive, especially against zone. As soon as we were able to get a pass through the zone, there would be a series of 2 and 3 metre passes in rapid succession which advanced the disc through the middle of the field before the defence could set up. Even those girls with poor throws made very few turnovers because they didn't have a mark on them and their target was nice and close. It was pretty to watch.
I played the second and third games on Sunday and the games on Monday. Due to the fact that I couldn't run much I played all O points except the last one on Monday and mainly the downwind O points so that if there was a turn it would be less likely for a huck to go sailing over my head for a score. Not that that stopped Ant Dowle. I started out as the axis/swing handler and I think I did a pretty good job, but I switched to the strike handler and made some really good yard gaining throws for the team. On Monday my confidence grew a bit too much and I started trying throws that were less sure and had some turnovers, but overall I show myself that when I focus properly, I can be a decent handler.
I should say a bit about the draw. We were seeded 20th. We won one game in our pool which put us second on goal difference and guaranteed us Top 16, so we'd already beaten our seed. We lost all three games on Sunday which didn't seem to make any difference. On Monday morning, we had a forfeit which put us into the 9 - 12 playoff group. We lost the last two games and finished 12th. There are apparently 12 teams worse than us, even though we only beat one of them. We spent the whole tournament playing in pools which were a bit too high for us which was good experience, but a bit demoralizing as well.
The injury was a pretty serious one, and the recommendation from pretty much everyone was don't play. My podiatrist was nice though, he said he could strap it and play on painkillers, but it probably wasn't a good idea. I decided before I left I definitely wasn't playing Saturday, and I'd see how I went for Sunday/Monday.
This changed my view of Mixed Nats. Normally I'm a receiver and rely on speed to get the disc and make some cuts. With a dodgy ankle, my greatest strength was going to be taken away from me and I was going to have to play as a handler. On the plus side, I had a day of watching the team to figure out how I could fit in, and attempt to contribute from the sidelines instead of the field.
I learnt two things pretty quickly. First, ultimate is frustrating from the sideline and second, games are really really long!
I think I was able to help out the team with little observations about the game in between points. One thing I noticed which I hadn't before was stack creep. While the stack initially set up in a nice spot, people returning to the stack always seem to return a little bit more on the open side than they started. During a long point, the stack would creep ever closer to the open sideline which crowded the lane. I even saw people who were looking to cut shuffling forwards and moving the stack with them. I think a simple solution to this is to get players to return to the stack on the break side of whomever is already in the stack. Hopefully that will arrest the stack creep.
I was playing with Flycatchers and the strength of the team was in the athleticism of the girls. Not many had handler disc skills, but their running and cutting kept the team alive, especially against zone. As soon as we were able to get a pass through the zone, there would be a series of 2 and 3 metre passes in rapid succession which advanced the disc through the middle of the field before the defence could set up. Even those girls with poor throws made very few turnovers because they didn't have a mark on them and their target was nice and close. It was pretty to watch.
I played the second and third games on Sunday and the games on Monday. Due to the fact that I couldn't run much I played all O points except the last one on Monday and mainly the downwind O points so that if there was a turn it would be less likely for a huck to go sailing over my head for a score. Not that that stopped Ant Dowle. I started out as the axis/swing handler and I think I did a pretty good job, but I switched to the strike handler and made some really good yard gaining throws for the team. On Monday my confidence grew a bit too much and I started trying throws that were less sure and had some turnovers, but overall I show myself that when I focus properly, I can be a decent handler.
I should say a bit about the draw. We were seeded 20th. We won one game in our pool which put us second on goal difference and guaranteed us Top 16, so we'd already beaten our seed. We lost all three games on Sunday which didn't seem to make any difference. On Monday morning, we had a forfeit which put us into the 9 - 12 playoff group. We lost the last two games and finished 12th. There are apparently 12 teams worse than us, even though we only beat one of them. We spent the whole tournament playing in pools which were a bit too high for us which was good experience, but a bit demoralizing as well.
Wednesday, October 8, 2008
Musings on Man Defense
After a quick read of The Cultimate Opinion blog on defence, I thought I'd put in my two cents. As a disclaimer, I'm really quite inexperienced, so most of this is theoretical and largely based on a probabalistic approach without a lot of data behind it.
At worlds, the stats were entirely for offence related activities, i.e. throwing a goal and catching a goal. There was absolutely no mention of turnovers or d's. It makes it hard to determine the effect of various players on D. Some ultimate statistics would be a very handy thing indeed.
D can appear very unrewarding. My time on Karma (on the D team) was filled with calls for getting blocks and layout D's, and as I really wasn't getting any. I wondered if I was doing a good defensive job for the team. Was I really contributing? I looked at why I wasn't getting the blocks that were called for and I realised that it was because my player wasn't getting the disc thrown to them much.
Being one of the chumpiest players on the team, I was marking up on the lesser abled opposition players. By playing good defence on them, staying as close as I could and not letting anyone make any decent cuts, I was preventing them from getting the disc. At one point I counted 5 points in row where the player I was marking did not touch the disc. Instead of berating myself for not getting turnovers for the team, I started seeing how much I could stop my player getting the disc. I figured if everyone did this, the stall count would go to 10, or there would be a hail mary huck and we'd get a turnover.
I would like to pose a question. Which is the better D; covering your defender so that nobody can pass to them, or letting them get a look and then getting the D? I could also put it another way. The stall count is on 9, the handler has two options, player A who is very well covered by player X and player B who isn't quite as well covered by player Z. The handler picks player B and player Z gets a D. Who played better D, player X or player Y?
I think the type of D, whether it's going for blocks or shutting down your player is largely dependent on who you are marking, and your team strategy. Defense is as much a team activity as offense is. In the above example, what got the turnover was really the combination of the two players. One player helped to force the offense to throw to a risky option. While running a defense in a man-on-man setup, the team should be identifying the matchup which is most likely to generate a turnover. That player then hangs off slightly while the rest of the team cuts off any other options. Hopefully this results in a turnover.
When things are less organised, I find that it can be easier to get a D on an elite player than someone less skilled on the opposing team. If there is an elite goto guy on the other team, I find that the lesser players will often throw riskier throws to the elite player, making it easier to get a D, whereas when you are marking a lesser player, they don't get the disc unless they are wide open. Furthermore, I find that when comparing throwing and recieving, most people are stronger receivers than throwers. If an elite player is throwing to a chump reciever, the probability of a completed pass is higher than a chump thrower to an elite receiver.
To summarise, in a man defense I think the best strategy to generate a turnover is to put the best defender on their best receiver and wait for one of the lesser abled players on offense to get the disc. At this point, shut down all options for them, but leave the elite player slightly open. Rely on the chumpy player not to put in the perfect throw and get the turn. Simple.
At worlds, the stats were entirely for offence related activities, i.e. throwing a goal and catching a goal. There was absolutely no mention of turnovers or d's. It makes it hard to determine the effect of various players on D. Some ultimate statistics would be a very handy thing indeed.
D can appear very unrewarding. My time on Karma (on the D team) was filled with calls for getting blocks and layout D's, and as I really wasn't getting any. I wondered if I was doing a good defensive job for the team. Was I really contributing? I looked at why I wasn't getting the blocks that were called for and I realised that it was because my player wasn't getting the disc thrown to them much.
Being one of the chumpiest players on the team, I was marking up on the lesser abled opposition players. By playing good defence on them, staying as close as I could and not letting anyone make any decent cuts, I was preventing them from getting the disc. At one point I counted 5 points in row where the player I was marking did not touch the disc. Instead of berating myself for not getting turnovers for the team, I started seeing how much I could stop my player getting the disc. I figured if everyone did this, the stall count would go to 10, or there would be a hail mary huck and we'd get a turnover.
I would like to pose a question. Which is the better D; covering your defender so that nobody can pass to them, or letting them get a look and then getting the D? I could also put it another way. The stall count is on 9, the handler has two options, player A who is very well covered by player X and player B who isn't quite as well covered by player Z. The handler picks player B and player Z gets a D. Who played better D, player X or player Y?
I think the type of D, whether it's going for blocks or shutting down your player is largely dependent on who you are marking, and your team strategy. Defense is as much a team activity as offense is. In the above example, what got the turnover was really the combination of the two players. One player helped to force the offense to throw to a risky option. While running a defense in a man-on-man setup, the team should be identifying the matchup which is most likely to generate a turnover. That player then hangs off slightly while the rest of the team cuts off any other options. Hopefully this results in a turnover.
When things are less organised, I find that it can be easier to get a D on an elite player than someone less skilled on the opposing team. If there is an elite goto guy on the other team, I find that the lesser players will often throw riskier throws to the elite player, making it easier to get a D, whereas when you are marking a lesser player, they don't get the disc unless they are wide open. Furthermore, I find that when comparing throwing and recieving, most people are stronger receivers than throwers. If an elite player is throwing to a chump reciever, the probability of a completed pass is higher than a chump thrower to an elite receiver.
To summarise, in a man defense I think the best strategy to generate a turnover is to put the best defender on their best receiver and wait for one of the lesser abled players on offense to get the disc. At this point, shut down all options for them, but leave the elite player slightly open. Rely on the chumpy player not to put in the perfect throw and get the turn. Simple.
Welcome
There seem to be a lot of ultimate blogs around, but none from Adelaide, so I decided to start one. I have no idea whether this will be a regular thing, whether it will be just me or include other people in Adelaide, but I figure if I'm thinking about ultimate, maybe I can get some other people to think about ultimate and maybe provide some feedback.
Adelaide is quite small. I estimate our active ultimate community at about 150 people based on the fact that there are 122 registered in our current mixed league spread across 11 teams. I'm guessing there are some other players who aren't currently playing, but essentially that's it. This small number creates some unique challenges for SA. We really need to focus on recruiting in order to bring our numbers up and create multi-divisional high quality leagues.
I really don't want to say too much about Adelaide though. It's SAFDA's job to progress our sport, and they have a better view of the community than I do.
So, welcome to In Theory..., hopefully it will have some decent content... eventually.
Adelaide is quite small. I estimate our active ultimate community at about 150 people based on the fact that there are 122 registered in our current mixed league spread across 11 teams. I'm guessing there are some other players who aren't currently playing, but essentially that's it. This small number creates some unique challenges for SA. We really need to focus on recruiting in order to bring our numbers up and create multi-divisional high quality leagues.
I really don't want to say too much about Adelaide though. It's SAFDA's job to progress our sport, and they have a better view of the community than I do.
So, welcome to In Theory..., hopefully it will have some decent content... eventually.
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